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[Liquidprism]

This next battle is a bit swingy, and it also involves characters from Tolkien's works, and Star Wars. The contenders both have alot going for them, but I am still pretty sure who I would vote for.

The match up: Gandalf the Grey vs. Darth Vader.

I suppose if you want you can also do Gandalf the White vs. the Dark Lord, your opinion might be diffrent, as Gandalf's power changes rather drastically between the two incarnations. Although no matter what his form he is still one of those spirit things from another world, just in a mortal(kind of) shell.
Does the Sith Lord have what it takes to overpower his foe? Does Gandalf have the ability, given Tolkiens rather obscure take on magical power, to out gun his sinister rival? Vote now and decide.

[Guardiankrillin]

Gandalf the grey

[Rusty]

Gandalf the grey was bested by saruman the white, but he eventually was able to defeat the balrog. Darth Vader is AT THE LEAST a close call for gandalf. But recall that also, an ascendant luke skywalker was able to bring vader down, at least most of the way.

the light sabor comes into the equation for sure, but also gandalf's sword is magic, so may be able to resist the blade of the sabor. after some thought, this is my verdict:

Darth Vader wins.

Gandalf, however powerful a wizard, is by no means the swordsman that Darth Vader is. Though tolkien's magic is nebulous and undefined, so is Lucas's Force. I think by powers, Vader's powers are more offensive, and he would be able to strangle gandalf at least long enough to get a swipe with his lightsabor in. Also, vader would be able to disarm gandalf of his sword and his staff, which was shown to increase his power. Vader wins for two main reasons: His powers are more offensive, and he is a more skilled martial combatant.

[rydi]

gandalf the grey would perhaps lose, gandalf the white would pound his ass. but my vote is still on gandalf in either incarnation. he was still a Power, a maiar, lesser angel, whatever. he wielded hidden powers as well. the flame of anor seems to be a great weapon against darkness, such as the Dark Side represents.

You cannot pass! I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass!

a definition follows: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/flameofanor.html

Actually, the 'flame of Anor' seems to have been a product of simple textual evolution. The earliest forms of this passage were variations on: 'I am the master of White Flame. The Red Fire cannot come this way' (and one variation mixes in the idea of Black Shadow, too).

second, he wields narya, the ring of fire. the other two rings of the elves were used to protect rivendell and lothlorien from those things possessed of dark power, and gave their bearers immense, though undefined, power.

third, he wielded magic, and though the full extent of such is not fully understood, it is potent in its effects and able to effect natural phenomena (such as the tides that wash away the nazgul in fellowship).

fourth, he is possessed of unnatural stamina, capable of fighting for days without rest, while climing a mountain. he was also able to survive a fall down an abyss that spanned most of said maountain, displaying supernatural durability

i posit that the battle would be one of Force/Magic rather than saber vs. sword. and gandalf is both warded against darkness and and a potent weilder of magic. in a sword fight he might lose do to inferior weaponry, but not i think due to inability to percieve the combat or lack of understanding of its intricacy, as he was an accomplished fighter, alive for... most of ever, and possessed of senses beyond mortal ken.

and are we assuming shit-tastic "luke i am your father" vader, or lame-tastic anakin vader? or height of his power, cool intermediate vader? just out of curiosity.

[Liquidprism]

Nice post Gideon. Very well reasoned.

I've seen the 'ultimate Showdown" by the way, but have you seen, the "Ultimate Orgy" spoof of the "Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Victory"?

[rydi]

after thinking about it, i think this could be a highly entertaining forum of its own. A new shrine will be errected, and this thread will henceforth have a place of honor in it.

[Liquidprism]

I loved your arguement as well Cheyne, very good stuff.

Anyway back to why I'm here: YIPPIE, a shrine! Did you see it everybody, I did something neat, and now it's gonna be a shrine! WHOOPIE!

[rydi]

i've always like these things. i've participated in them before, but they usually devolve into suck at some point, and then the flame wars occur. but they are still fun.

unicron vs. galactus. now there is a fight... if you like seeing big robot planets eaten by cosmic beings!

[Liquidprism]

They could gnaw on each other until the end of all time. Hey, that would be an awesome flash movie.

As per Cheynes request as of the Gandalf vs Vader battle, I will try to incorporate a few more variables into each fight: terrain, incarnation of said characters, that sort of thing. I dont' want to get overly specific, but a few extra details are good.
For the most part I think we should just assume the combatants are in the prime phases of their power, unless otherwise stated. So for example, the version of Vader we are talking about is 'infamous scourge of the Empire with plans to usurp the emperor' Vader, in the height of his glory days. Gandalf's incarnations have been listed, and they are fighting on...I don't know, Dagoba (i think that's how its spelled).

[rydi]

i think for the future, since there is now an entire forum for it, we can have separate fights in separate threads.

and i still think grey has it by a narrow margin, mainly because the darkside would slide off of him like water off a ducks anus.

white kills them both however. at the same time.

[Liquidprism]

One Fight, One Thread...I like it.

From now on this is the Vader vs Gandalf thread. I am moving Aragorn vs Yoda to it's own room.

My decree has been finalized, and is official...That is all(giggle).

[Rusty]

in considering that gandalf has the ring of fire, I'd say he wins. Vader is powerful, but he's not nearly as powerful as he'd have to be to stand toe to toe against one of the great rings.

However, I offer a counterpoint. Though vader and the emperor are very powerful sith, I wish to propose another sith warrior to fight gandalf. This one comes from Knights of the Old Republic II, Darth Psion. Psion is so consumed by the dark side that his corporeal form is gone, and he is an anthropomorphic incarnation of the dark side. He weilds a light sabor, of course, but his force powers are horrific. He wanders the universe in a decrepit star destroyer powered only by the dark side of the force, and he consumes worlds and life to feed his never ending hunger. I'd put him up against Gandalf the White. Just a thought. Anyone who knows the game might understand the character I'm talking about.

[Liquidprism]

There are lots of Sith lords 'so consumed by the dark side they aren't corporeal, and can devour the souls of worlds with a glance'. You know what, some how they always manage...to lose. Why is that?

[Rusty]

...because lucas is a hack?

[rydi]

im torn on this one. i think that psion would be a challenge, but is he a sauran level challenge? if so, then he could take our fair maia in battle. but if not... i think darth is more of a threat. at least he's more of physical fighter. gandalf excels at fighting off evil energies and maintaining purity.

a better fight might be on a totally different field of battle: who could marshal the forces of light/dark to better effect? or perhaps better, would gandalf be able to protect a world set up for destruction by psion?